Sachin VS Ponting

See,when we compare great cricketers we should compare them over their entire careers not over a particular span of time.Also one more criteria that we have to take into consideration is that the cricketers we conmpare belong to the same generation so comparin lara,sachin and tendulkar is correct but not tendulkar and sir viv or ponting and sir viv or sunny and sachin because playin conditions differ greatly along with the style and demands of international cricket.Some people say ponting is far better than lara and sachinOk, fine enough now, let us make a list of all incisive or penetrative(Not necessarily great) bowlers of sachins,lara's and pontings generation.Curtly Ambrose,Courteny Walsh,Allan Donald,Bret Schultz, shaun pollock(penetrative till 2001)Muralitharan,Shane Bond,Waqar Younis,Wasim Akram,Saqlain Mushtaq,Mushtaq ahmed,Anil kumble(penetrative in india) or rather the bunch of spinners in india playin in india conditions.Ponting purple patch started post 2003 ie 2003,2004,2005,2006,2007For five years he has been outstanding.Now most of the bowlers listed above retired on an around 2002.Now could anyone please tell me how many of pontings test centuries(i mean tests becoz test matches are a true indicator of greatness) have come when the above listed bowlers were playing or in case of bond and murali hows many of pontimngs knocks have come against bond and murali or against kumble(in india).Have you ever seen ponting dominating the above mentioned bowlersor atleast scoring consistently.Tendulkar peak was during, when most of the above mentioned bowlerswere at their peakIn case of bond sachin has hardly played bond,or rather played bond in only 1 test series prior to 2003 WC where we all know how the pitches were like and also sachin was injured for the major part of the series.Let us take pontings peak.Pontings peak started post 2003 WC and let us list the attack he played against during his peak
pak-> always injured bunch of fast bowlers and indisciplined.SA-> pollock,who lost his striking power post 2002sl->murali,ponting never dominated him or scored against himwi-> we know how good is their attackNZ->Bond,Aus fear bond,In partcular ponting has no good knocks against bondind->Kumble(in india),check pontings record against ind in ind.Abt the rest of ind bowlers the less said the better.eng-> all teams eat their attack for breakfast or rather their bowling quartret of freddie,simon,hoggard,harmisson never played together after 2005 ashes.So friends ponting record till 2002 when most of the penetrative or incisive bowlere listed at the start played ,was not greatHis peak coincided with the decline of bowling standards.Its not ponting fault that the bowling standards declined ,but then what is his record from 1995(test debut) to 2002 ????
Also one more point.If subcontinent players have to prove themselves against pace and swing in foreign conditions to be classified as great,then shouldn't foreign players prove themselves against spin in subcontinent conditions to be classified as great.So whats ricky's record against spin in the subcontinent ?Tendulkars record outside the subcontinent is much better than pontings record in the subcontinent.For record pontings avg against ind in india is 12.28 after 8 test matches(thats a sigificnt amount of tests)I say india because india has the best attack if comparison has to be made for sucontinent conditions.Tendulkar averages 54.14 after 12 tests against aus IN AUS and aus has the best bowling attack in the world if a comparison has to be made for foriegn conditions.Mr Ian chappell should take all these into consideration when talking.So friends its sachin and lara for me as the best followed by ponting.
There is no doubt about the fact that Ponting has a pathetic record in India. Following is a comparison of Sachin and Ponting's record in various countries...England -Ponting: 938 runs at an average of 42.63 in 13 matchesSachin: 1074 runs at an average of 71.60 in 10 matchesNew Zealand -Ponting: 293 runs at an average of 97.66 in 3 matchesSachin: 498 runs at an average of 41.50 in 8 matchesPakistan -Ponting: 119 runs at an average of 119 in 1 matchSachin: 483 runs at an average of 40.25 in 10 matchesSouth Africa -Ponting: 657 runs at an average of 65.70 in 6 matchesSachin: 835 runs at an average of 39.76 in 12 matchesSri Lanka -Ponting: 599 runs at an average of 54.45 in 7 matchesSachin: 670 runs at an average of 111.66 in 6 matchesWest Indies -Ponting: 691 runs at an average of 98.71 in 5 matchesSachin: 620 runs at an average of 47.69 in 10 matchesZimbabwe -Ponting: 31 runs at an average of 31.00 in 1 matchesSachin: 240 runs at an average of 40.00 in 4 matchesIndia -Ponting: 172 runs at an average of 12.28 in 8 matchesSachin: 4917 runs at an average of 55.24 in 60 matchesAustralia -Ponting: 5483 runs at an average of 64.50 in 62 matchesSachin: 1029 runs at an average of 54.15 in 12 matchesIf you look at it, purely from an averages point of view...Sachin is ahead of Ponting in England, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and India...whereas, Ponting is ahead of Sachin in New Zealand, Pakistan, South Africa, West Indies and Australia.Ponting has played just one Test Match each in Pakistan and Zimbabwe. So, though he leads Sachin in averages in Pakistan and lags behind him in Zimbabwe...i guess, its better to leave those countries...because its very difficult to say what his record would have been had he played more matches.
So, you can see that Ponting has a pathetic record in only one country i.e., India. For a batsman to be considered as not too good in a particular country, I believe that his average in A particular country should be around 20% or more lesser than his career average. As to why it should be 20% and not 15% or 25% is a matter for another debate altogether. But, as a general guideline...20% suits fine...So, for Ponting...bad record includes England (42.63), Zimbabwe (31.00) and India (12.28). Whereas, for Sachin....bad record includes New Zealand (41.50), Pakistan (40.25), South Africa (39.76) and Zimbabwe (40.00).In my opinion Ponting pathetic record against India is more than offset by Sachin bad record against NZ, Pak, SA and Zim.
In my mind, there is no doubt about the fact that in terms of technique...Sachin is far ahead of Ponting, though Ponting is a much better player of the short delivery than Sachin. Steve Waugh never had a great technique. But he more than made it up with his guts and determination. If there are two cricketers I would want to bat in order to save my life, I would choose Steve Waugh and Geoffrey Boycott. But, at the end of the day what matters is how many runs are scored by the batsmen. Sachin and Ponting both have shown over the years that in terms of run-making ability they belong to the top bracket.The way their careers have progressed, I feel that Ponting will end up with a career average of around 57 (currently it is 59+) whereas Sachin's average will be somewhere around 53-54 (currently, just over 54) and Ponting will end up with most number of centuries.
HI DHANANJYA AND ASHEY..I AGREE WITH BOTH OF U..BUT DHAN SACHIN'S CARRER IS NOT OVER YET,,HE HAS AN AVERAGE OF 54 NOW..AM SURE THIS WILL GO UP N NOT COME DOWN,COZ IN 1997 WHEN HE WAS THE CAPTAIN, HIS ODI AVG CAME TO NEARLY 38,,BUT WHERE IT IS NOW??44...HE IS A GR8 PLAYER..AM SURE HE WILL HIT BACK COZ THATS SACHIN 4 U..WHENEVER THE CRITICS HIT HIM HARD HE HITS THEM BACK WITH MESMERISING PERFORMANCE..LETS HOPE THE TORNADO WILL HIT SOONER N STRONGER..
Plus, why should one downgrade Ponting's batsmanship BECAUSE he is a part of the Australian team, which has the best bowling line-up. It is as stupid as saying Kumble would not have picked up so many wickets if he had bowled to Indian batsmen. Even more absurd would be saying that Richards wouldnt have scored all those runs if he had faced the West Indian quicks.Ponting's first class record:205 matches, 345 innings, 50 not-outs, 17750 runs, 60.16 avg, 66 centuries.Excluding his Test Match record, his first class average is 61.5, which is higher than his Test average. And we all know how tough and competitive Australia's domestic cricket is
What I have mentioned about end-of-the-career averages of Sachin and Ponting is based on how their career graphs have progressed over the years.For example, lets consider the following scenarios:Suppose Tendulkar plays another 20 innings, he will have to score 1600 runs at an average of 80 to end up with a career average of 57.Suppose Tendulkar plays another 30 innings, he will have to score 2150 runs at an average of 72 to end up with a career average of 57.Suppose Tendulkar plays another 40 innings, he will have to score 2700 runs at an average of 68 to end up with a career average of 57.Suppose Tendulkar plays another 50 innings, he will have to score 3300 runs at an average of 66 to end up with a career average of 57.I will be more than surprised if Tendulkar manages to do it. Though, it will be quite a pleasant surprise :)
i really aprreciate your cricketing sense.. excellent observation..but according to me.. sachin and lara should not be compared with pontings and dravids and kallis..lara, sachin, steve waugh, inzaman and aravinda.. these were of the same era and these people should be compared... dont go by ages.. hayden is elder to sachin.. but sachin belong to an different era altogether.. sachin and lara had duels with many great bowlers which made cricket an interesting affair. and pitches were not so easy to bat on..whereas ponting, dravid, kallis belong to the next era.. it will be ideal to compare these guys in test cricket..Pre world war erapost world war era1960-19801980-19901990-2002 (sachin -lara era)post 2002 (ponting era)and a great new generation is coming up with KP, Hussey, clarke, yuvi and symonds (this is the future generation).Ideally ponting should not be compared to sachin or lara..
i also appreciate the way u ve projected to scores..most probably sachin will finish his career with an average of 57 (provided he plays without injuries or breaks).. and what i thought was at the end of ponting's career his average will be 60.Lara's average is 52, but if you see his of late heroics, he would ve finished right close to 57 if age was in his side..as i said before pre war and post war era an average of 60 is good, then the averages declinded with increasing bowling standards and between 70 to 90 an average of 50 was considered great..sachin extended it to 55 plus..and now again ponting will extend it to 60 plus..
when did sachin play australia in a test match in the past 4 years???present always matters.. that is true.. but when did sachin play 1 full year with out a break in test matches??? over past 4 years???'sachin is not great he is just good' a baseless statement.. well what is the yardstick of greatness.. i can also comeout and say that 'ponting is not great, but just waste'.. is easy to bringdown someone's greatness.. but why indians are bringing down their own heroes, i dont understand that.. there are a big list of good players in india and to put sachin is the same bracket easy for anyone.. but that will by no means bring the master down..
thought you know basic internet concepts and you could atleast click on a link what i ve sent.. now u are clearly proving us that u ve not grown up mentally..so for people like you, i ve copy pasted the stats over the past 6 years..Highest average in ODIs since July 7, 2001 (Qual: at least 75 matches) Batsman ODIs Runs Average Strike rate 100s/ 50s Sachin Tendulkar 98 3983 46.31 83.43 11/ 20 Chris Gayle 121 4972 44.79 82.44 15/ 24 Ramnaresh Sarwan 113 3692 44.48 76.88 3/ 24 Michael Clarke 91 2625 43.75 83.17 2/ 19 Boeta Dippenaar 83 2809 43.21 68.57 4/ 20 Rahul Dravid 152 4994 42.68 72.61 5/ 41 Jacques Kallis 112 3780 42.47 72.69 6/ 27 Mohammad Yousuf 142 4947 42.28 77.90 8/ 34 Andrew Symonds 110 3170 42.26 89.27 5/ 18 Matthew Hayden 94 3446 42.02 77.07 4/ 20 Ricky Ponting 138 4865 41.22 83.24 12/ 29 Damien Martyn 129 3667 41.20 75.71 3/ 28 Shivnarine Chanderpaul 101 3154 39.42 74.28 1/ 25 Inzamam-ul-Haq 119 3521 39.12 80.99 3/ 23 Graeme Smith 95 3460 38.87 78.85 6/ 19 now see it yourself and decide..and now gayle poor form in the world cup sachin is head and shoulders above the rest in the odis..